
                  Operating System Comparisons (2) (Fidonet)

                 Saturday, 04-Dec-1999 to Friday, 10-Dec-1999

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From: Jack Stein                                        01-Dec-99 18:36:00
  To: All                                               04-Dec-99 06:00:04
Subj: DBAT Babble November Part 1 of 1

                               Part  1                               
                    The OS/2 REXX BabbloMeter Report                    
      Monthly Babble received in OS-DEBAT at Jack's Free Lunch BBS      
                           November, 1999                            

                    10 users babbled 21 Messages                     

Outbound Babble        %     K   Avg K | Incoming Babble         %
=======================================|============================
  6 SCOTT LITTLE     28.6%   37k   6.2 |   6 SCOTT LITTLE      28.6%
  5 JACK STEIN       23.8%   32k   6.3 |   5 ALL               23.8%
  2 MIKE RUSKAI       9.5%    3k   1.6 |   4 JACK STEIN        19.0%
  2 DAVID BOWERMAN    9.5%    3k   1.3 |   3 MIKE RUSKAI       14.3%
  1 MICHAEL WENDELL   4.8%    1k   1.3 |   1 MARTIN PRIETO      4.8%
  1 MARTIN PRIETO     4.8%    2k   2.0 |   1 DENNY HOFF         4.8%
  1 OLIVER KATIGBAK   4.8%    1k   1.4 |   1 DAVID BOWERMAN     4.8%
  1 ROBERT SELBERG    4.8%    1k   1.1 |  
  1 DENNY HOFF        4.8%    5k   5.1 |  
  1 DARRELL SALTER    4.8%    1k   0.9 |  

--- MakeMsg v2.1
 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR16.8 Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171.0)

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From: Martin Prieto                                     03-Dec-99 00:32:27
  To: Scott Little                                      04-Dec-99 06:00:04
Subj: Re: why penguins can't fly on the deskto

 SL> Well, that'd be a start. RH or Debian... I went with RH since that's
 SL> where all the attention is, and therefore when most of the support/dev
 SL> is.

Support is quit the same thing for all Linux flavors.

 SL> There is a project to develop an advanced print spooler for *nix but I
 SL> can't remember the URL....

Damn, try to remember. At least a keyword, for example: "APS", for 
advanced print spooler, there is already a script called APS, but don't 
work here, since Lpr don't work either.

 SL>         Problem with LP1 or your printer is on fire.
 
N'ah, I think I may have disconnected the LPT1 cable when installing my 
new hard drive. Windows can't print also, seems it's so good at it, 
better than nothing!


(o_        UIN: 349 806 21                       _o) 
//\      Voice: MARTIN GET YOU ASS IN HERE!!     /\\ 
V_/_    e-mail: riverdale@penguinpowered.com    _\_V 

... A BANDAID!? Damn it Jim, I'm a doctor, no a-oh, never mind.
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- RG 98-356a/GE 1.20
 * Origin: Mysteria BBS Node 1&2, Montreal (514)257-8043 (1:167/700)
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From: Martin Prieto                                     05-Dec-99 16:06:17
  To: Jack Stein                                        06-Dec-99 09:49:05
Subj: Re: judge is wrong

 JS> Nope. In "my fantasy land" people BUY  products because they are
 JS> superior, or there is a price advantage.  Retailers SELL what people
 JS> buy, for profit.

For informed people of course, like the one that will buy a cheap 2000$
sound system, not like others that buy laming Sony, Panasonic and  shits
like that that will break the year after you bought it and will keep
having problems even after that, all this including the very bad sound
quality.

    Then, tell me how did Sony or any Japanese firm manage to make VHS 
the standart? Look at the BETA, they were smallers, offered much 
more viewing time with a better sound AND visual quality. If marketing 
didn't make people buy such a bad technology then God did, unless you 
have a better idea.



(o_        UIN: 349 806 21                       _o) 
//\      Voice: MARTIN GET YOU ASS IN HERE!!     /\\ 
V_/_    e-mail: riverdale@penguinpowered.com    _\_V 

... "WHERE ARE THE GOD-DAMNED CIGARETTES... Oh, sorry..." -- Bungee
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- RG 98-356a/GE 1.20
 * Origin: Mysteria BBS Node 1&2, Montreal (514)257-8043 (1:167/700)

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From: David Bowerman                                    06-Dec-99 06:48:09
  To: Martin Prieto                                     06-Dec-99 15:54:18
Subj: judge is wrong

Martin Prieto wrote in a message to Jack Stein:

 MP>     Then, tell me how did Sony or any Japanese firm manage to make
 MP> VHS  the standart? Look at the BETA, they were smallers, offered
 MP> much  more viewing time with a better sound AND visual quality. If
 MP> marketing  didn't make people buy such a bad technology then God
 MP> did, unless you  have a better idea.

VHS?  As promoted by Japan Victor Company?  Beta?  Smaller?  Yes.  Much more
viewing time?  Hmmmm.... last time I looked, Beta had a shorter recording time 
than VHS from the getgo.  Sound and visual quality?  Visual?  Yes.  Sound?  An 
arguable point that either Beta or VHS HAD sound quality until we get to the
high fidelity stereo units.

You might want to compare Sony's licensing fees to those of JVC.  The
difference there translated into an appreciable cost difference at the retail
level.  A level where the average consumer is cost driven which gave VHS a
definite advantage over Beta.

You might also want to notice that the majority of VCRs (VHS and Beta) are
used to record at the lowest tape speed to allow the longest recording time.
The average consumer seems to be either unaware of or unconcered with the
quality difference between the various tape speeds.

Regards,
       David

--- timEd/2 1.10.y2k+
 * Origin:  Frog Hollow -- a scenic backroad off the Infobahn (1:153/290)
2433/225

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From: Jack Stein                                        06-Dec-99 07:48:18
  To: Martin Prieto                                     07-Dec-99 13:24:07
Subj: Re: judge is wrong

Martin Prieto wrote in a message to Jack Stein:

 JS> Nope. In "my fantasy land" people BUY  products because they are
 JS> superior, or there is a price advantage.  Retailers SELL what people
 JS> buy, for profit.

 MP> For informed people of course, like the one that will buy a
 MP> cheap 2000$ sound system, not like others that buy laming
 MP> Sony, Panasonic and  shits like that that will break the
 MP> year after you bought it and will keep having problems even
 MP> after that, all this including the very bad sound quality.

I'm not up on the sound market, so don't know what a cheap, good system is.  I 
thought it would be Sony or Panasonic?

 MP>     Then, tell me how did Sony or any Japanese firm manage
 MP> to make VHS  the standart? 

Sony WAS beta!  
 MP> Look at the BETA, they were smallers, offered much  more 
 MP> viewing time with a better sound AND visual quality. 

That's not true. VHS offered longer playing times before Sony's beta.  The
whole reason VHS won that battle was VHS offered more options 6 months to a
year before Sony did with their beta.  The quality of the picture was not
decernable to the human eye, so VHS had all the gadgets, had the quality and
dependability, and the price.  Sony's beta didn't have a chance, the market
worked exactly as expected.

 MP> If marketing  didn't make people buy such a bad technology then 
 MP> God did, unless you  have a better idea.

God had nothing to do with it, VHS had all the right stuff, thats why it won
in the market place, exactly the opposite of WIN.

                                              Jack 
--- timEd/2-B11
 * Origin: Jack's Free Lunch 4OS2 USR 56k Pgh Pa (412)492-0822 (1:129/171)
129/0

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From: Martin Prieto                                     08-Dec-99 18:13:16
  To: Jack Stein                                        10-Dec-99 06:58:06
Subj: Re: judge is wrong

 JS> I'm not up on the sound market, so don't know what a cheap, good system
 JS> is.  I thought it would be Sony or Panasonic?

You could compare Sony and Panasonic to Windows. Their are all very low 
level on wheter their area is. I have a portable Radio/caset/CD player 
which didn't stop breaking, first that was the tape deck that couldn't 
play without lowering the quality to something not listenable (clean 
it, but didn't had any effect on it), then the CD player stop working. 
Once I was listening a CD, remove it, put a new one and KABOOM! Didn't 
work...

 JS> That's not true. VHS offered longer playing times before Sony's beta.
 JS> The whole reason VHS won that battle was VHS offered more options 6
 JS> months to a year before Sony did with their beta.  The quality of the
 JS> picture was not decernable to the human eye, so VHS had all the
 JS> gadgets, had the quality and dependability, and the price.  Sony's beta
 JS> didn't have a chance, the market worked exactly as expected.

I hope people will decern it now, I WAN'T DVD!


(o_        UIN: 349 806 21                       _o) 
//\      Voice: MARTIN GET YOU ASS IN HERE!!     /\\ 
V_/_    e-mail: riverdale@penguinpowered.com    _\_V 

... Are you using Windows NT, or is that just an XT?
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- RG 98-356a/GE 1.20
 * Origin: Mysteria BBS Node 1&2, Montreal (514)257-8043 (1:167/700)

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From: Martin Prieto                                     08-Dec-99 18:13:17
  To: David Bowerman                                    10-Dec-99 06:58:07
Subj: Re: judge is wrong

 DB> VHS?  As promoted by Japan Victor Company?  Beta?  Smaller?  Yes.  Much
 DB> more viewing time?  Hmmmm.... last time I looked, Beta had a shorter

How much?

 DB> recording time than VHS from the getgo.  Sound and visual quality?
 DB> Visual?  Yes.  Sound?  An arguable point that either Beta or VHS HAD
 DB> sound quality until we get to the high fidelity stereo units.

Thing is, can YOU distinguish the difference?

VHS sound quality is NOT bad, compared to visual qualitys whici really 
sucks. When my VCR worked(!) I used to rent two movie each week. I 
wasn't even used to better qualitys and I knew that the viewing sucks a 
lot, colors are so fadded. And yes I tryed to mess with all the color 
controls switch and all. DVD kicks ass, I hope it will fastly makes his 
place through this mess.

 DB> You might also want to notice that the majority of VCRs (VHS and Beta)
 DB> are used to record at the lowest tape speed to allow the longest
 DB> recording time. The average consumer seems to be either unaware of or
 DB> unconcered with the quality difference between the various tape speeds.

And it's worst! The difference is incredible, at least for me.


(o_        UIN: 349 806 21                       _o) 
//\      Voice: MARTIN GET YOU ASS IN HERE!!     /\\ 
V_/_    e-mail: riverdale@penguinpowered.com    _\_V 

... Naw, Windows works fine with this !@#$&&$!#  NO CARRIER
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- RG 98-356a/GE 1.20
 * Origin: Mysteria BBS Node 1&2, Montreal (514)257-8043 (1:167/700)

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From: Darrell Salter                                    08-Dec-99 23:18:14
  To: All                                               10-Dec-99 06:58:07
Subj: Y2K

Hello All!

I'm trying to gather some info as to which OSs, if any, are Y2K compliant.

DOS - Specifically MS-DOS, but any others as well.

Windows - 3.1/95/98/NT/4/2000. Are any of these Y2K compliant, and if not, are 
there patches/upgrades to make them so?

OS/2 - Which fixpaks need be applied, if any, for V.3 and V.4?

Linux - Is this a kernel issue, and if so, which kernel would be required to
be Y2K compliant?

Thanks!

Regards,
Darrell

--- Msged/2 TE 05
 * Origin: Amd.sparkys.dyndns.org (905) 433-9872 (1:229/2)
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From: David Bowerman                                    09-Dec-99 01:04:01
  To: Martin Prieto                                     10-Dec-99 06:58:07
Subj: judge is wrong

Martin Prieto wrote in a message to David Bowerman:

 DB> VHS?  As promoted by Japan Victor Company?  Beta?  Smaller?  Yes.  Much
 DB> more viewing time?  Hmmmm.... last time I looked, Beta had a shorter

 MP> How much?

Usual Beta tape was a L-750 good for 4.5 hours at the lowest tape speed. 
Usual VHS tape was a T-120 good for 6 hours at the lowest tape speed.

At the higest speed, you could tape a two hour special on a single VHS tape
while a Beta tape would only give you 1.5 hours.

 DB> recording time than VHS from the getgo.  Sound and visual quality?
 DB> Visual?  Yes.  Sound?  An arguable point that either Beta or VHS HAD
 DB> sound quality until we get to the high fidelity stereo units.

 MP> Thing is, can YOU distinguish the difference?

Between Beta and VHS audio?  Usual television sound is comparable to AM radio
despite using FM, Beta and VHS both offer better quality reproduction of crap. 
 On a decent television, Beta seemed to give a minor quality difference. 
Mostly things like the moire effects on a hockey referee's jersey being worse
on a VHS recording.

 MP> VHS sound quality is NOT bad, compared to visual qualitys whici
 MP> really  sucks. When my VCR worked(!) I used to rent two movie each
 MP> week. I  wasn't even used to better qualitys and I knew that the
 MP> viewing sucks a  lot, colors are so fadded. And yes I tryed to mess
 MP> with all the color  controls switch and all. DVD kicks ass, I hope
 MP> it will fastly makes his  place through this mess.

Quite a few movies are now using the extended play speed to reduce the amount
of tape needed.  I've found those tapes playback a very noticeably poorer
image and are much more sensitive to the VCR than the standard play tapes. 
That sensitivity may be due to the use of sync modification techniques to
prevent the tapes from being easily copied.  I've put together a couple of
sync enhancement devices and with some tape, they do give a noticeable quality 
improvement with both contrast/colour and jitter.

 DB> You might also want to notice that the majority of VCRs (VHS and Beta)
 DB> are used to record at the lowest tape speed to allow the longest
 DB> recording time. The average consumer seems to be either unaware of or
 DB> unconcered with the quality difference between the various tape speeds.

 MP> And it's worst! The difference is incredible, at least for me. 

I have to agree.  But then I have friends who insist that they can't see the
difference.  A rather disgusting state of affairs since even the published
specs show the quality loss at the lower tape speeds.

Regards,
       David

--- timEd/2 1.10.y2k+
 * Origin:  Frog Hollow -- a scenic backroad off the Infobahn (1:153/290)

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From: Michael Wendell                                   09-Dec-99 14:32:00
  To: Darrell Salter                                    10-Dec-99 06:58:07
Subj: Y2K

-> DOS - Specifically MS-DOS, but any others as well.

not a clue.  sorry.

-> Windows - 3.1/95/98/NT/4/2000. Are any of these Y2K compliant, and if not,
are
-> there patches/upgrades to make them so?

95/ 98, you have to go to microsofts website and download patches for
them.  do a search for 'y2k download' and its like number 3 or 4 on the
list.  nt4 is with sp3 or 4 i believe.  nt2k is suppost to be out of the
box or beta if you're running it.

-> Linux - Is this a kernel issue, and if so, which kernel would be required
to
be
-> Y2K compliant?

could have sworn linux was y2k about 20 years ago.  :)

right now, im more interested in feb 29 myself and wonder what is going
to work on that day.

mike
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